Creating a client base that lifts you up

In this milestone episode, host Jenn Ocken and producer Samantha Morgan delve into the importance of defining boundaries for success in creative entrepreneurship. Jenn shares her recent coaching experience and emphasizes the significance of acknowledging and documenting feelings of success and distress during work. They discuss the value of identifying ideal and nightmare clients and how this process can help establish a clear target market. Jenn stresses the significance of not sacrificing one's value or compensation while pursuing passions and provide insights into boosting confidence in pricing. Join the conversation as they explore the journey of self-discovery and the pursuit of a fulfilling career as an entrepreneur.

AUDIO VERSION

This version is different than the video version.

TRANSCRIPT

Samatha Morgan: We are back again for episode, holy crap, five.

Jenn Ocken: Okay. So can I tell you something real quick, Sam?

Samatha Morgan: Yes.

Jenn Ocken: We are now one episode further than I got the last time I tried to do a podcast.

Samatha Morgan: We're over the hump. Milestone.

Jenn Ocken: It is.

Samatha Morgan: We have done it, we have done it.

Jenn Ocken: You got to take those wins.

Samatha Morgan: I love it, I love it. Well, I'm very excited to be your producer slash...

Jenn Ocken: Security blanket?

Samatha Morgan: Hey, I'll take that. All right. So here we are, episode five, the milestone episode, the one beyond episode, the soon to be greatest episode that you're going to just put on replay over and over again.

Jenn Ocken: I hope so, because I'm really excited about what we're talking about today.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: I'm feeling it.

Samatha Morgan: So what are we talking about today?

Jenn Ocken: I got very inspired for today's topic. I'm coaching a creative. And I checked in, I do the email or text check-ins with them and check in just to see, because it had been a while since we talked. And asked them what his wins were, where he might be feeling it. And he was straight out said, "If I'm feeling stuck, it's not getting paid for what I want to do."

Samatha Morgan: Been there.

Jenn Ocken: And that's what we're going to talk about today.

Samatha Morgan: Okay.

Jenn Ocken: And you described it in our little pre-game powwow about setting, creating boundaries for what it is we want to do and get paid for. And why that is so important to establish and create this definition of what we want to be doing, and exactly what we want to be doing and how we personally want to do it.

Samatha Morgan: It's not an easy thing to do, because you go into it with this idea that, oh, I want to do something within this space. And I think we talked about this in our past episodes. You start comparing yourselves to what everybody is doing outwardly. So you start seeing the final product of what other people have done and you assume that that's what you need to do.

Jenn Ocken: Right.

Samatha Morgan: And so you immediately gravitate to that. I don't even know where to begin to try to figure out...

Jenn Ocken: It took me a long time to understand this because there isn't a one, two, three-step process to defining this.

Samatha Morgan: Definitely.

Jenn Ocken: Yeah. It has to happen organically, which the best things, in my opinion, do happen organically. A lot like you and I.

Samatha Morgan: Kind of like this. Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: I'll admit to that a hundred percent. It was where I started realizing, when I was working on something, the distress level I felt, or when I was working on something, the elation that I felt, which is one of the main reasons on my priority checklist tear sheets, that you can get for free off my website, that rating of how that task makes you feel is very important. Now, I know when we're first starting out tasks that we need to do to start the business, keep the business going, start evolving the business, whatever you need to do, you might not be able to afford somebody to come in and do it. So you have to find some balances. But when we're actually providing, especially when we're service-orientated entrepreneurs, I mean, it could be therapists, graphic designers, web designers.

Samatha Morgan: That's me.

Jenn Ocken: Podcast producers.

Samatha Morgan: That's me, too.

Jenn Ocken: Right? You have certain values. That's why core values are very important to define as guideposts to what you say yes or no to, because it's an immediate help. So when you are moving through and first starting out, you need to, as the talent that is producing the craft or the service, you need to really take note about what is bringing you joy and excitement in your successes and what is distressing you, because it matters.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah. I wanted to share something with you that I literally learned yesterday and it reminded me so much of you and your process, and so I think it's a great reinforcement. So the person that I was speaking to was a sales professional. And I was seeking her counsel because I am in the process of trying to sell a thing and I don't know how to do sales. I'm not a salesperson. I've never done it before. And so she gave me some tips. And one of the things she said the first thing that you should do when you're trying to do sales is to create an ideal customer spreadsheet. And she's like, "I like to use a spreadsheet." So it's kind of like the tear sheets that you were talking, that's what reminded me of it. But she said, "Make columns for not only your ideal customer, but your nightmare customer as well." Finding all the different boundaries, just like you're talking about now, of what makes an ideal person to try to sell to versus somebody that you definitely want to avoid.

Jenn Ocken: Right.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: I love the spreadsheet idea. The one thing I was talking to with the person that I'm coaching right now is make note, acknowledge, but that's however you see fit. I don't want to tell people how to do it. I love to say make suggestions, but I've also realized some of the suggestions that I might make might be the roadblock or distraction or keep somebody from actually doing it.

Samatha Morgan: Right.

Jenn Ocken: So all I say, and I know I have to be vague about it for-

Samatha Morgan: Privacy's sake.

Jenn Ocken: Well, privacy's sake, but also I meant vague in how you do it.

Samatha Morgan: Oh, okay.

Jenn Ocken: Because you have to find that way that you resonate with most. That is one of my biggest things going into coaching people is that you have to find the way it works for you. And I'm not going to be the one to tell you exactly how you do it unless you ask me.

Samatha Morgan: Right.

Jenn Ocken: And I am bean spiller a hundred percent.

Samatha Morgan: Seriously, for sure.

Jenn Ocken: But I was telling him, "You need to acknowledge it, celebrate it when it is a success." So for instance, one of my things with portraits, I'm very fast and efficient at creating images very efficiently and quickly.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: I don't need an hour and a half and a long, drawn out portrait session for families, both kids and dads, and really, if I get down to it, moms. None of us really like those like that.

Samatha Morgan: None of us want to spend all that time. Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: Well, my clients.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: Some do.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: That was very important to me. So when I come out of an exciting or a great session in my book knowing I got all the pictures I needed, had a great relationship with the clients and relatable time together, cultivating a relationship, photographing them over the years, talking about past stuff, that is a definite win.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: I'm in my car saying how much I love my life. I've taken note about all those little aspects that led into a successful portrait for me, and I celebrate it. But I also take note when I feel the [inaudible 00:06:44] or when I feel the frustration of something not necessarily going, not really being the client that I wanted to photograph. I still do that today.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: It's kind of like a reminder too, but I make it very situational so that I can acknowledge what it is I do and don't like. And that spreadsheet is something you can actually visually see. My week at a glance tear sheets are columns, so you don't have to use them Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays. You could use them as columns that you're making those things for. And you go for and acknowledge and celebrate and want to do more of those things, all the little aspects that make your craft or talent a success.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: Because you even have to sometimes push away the validation that you receive from the clients.

Samatha Morgan: Oh.

Jenn Ocken: Because I can produce good photographs.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: Even though they gave me grand accolades, I might not have enjoyed the session as much as they did. I mean, now, don't get me wrong. When I was first starting out, I considered doing the sessions, the assignments that I didn't necessarily love as supplemental income.

Samatha Morgan: Right.

Jenn Ocken: Because it was still within the same industry of the craft that I was pursuing.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: I would much rather be photographing something that I didn't quite enjoy doing, it wasn't my target of what I wanted to be as a sustainable career, but I'd also didn't want to go and keep bartending because of that energy suck kind of thing.

Samatha Morgan: Right.

Jenn Ocken: So there's a lot of layers to saying yes and no to things and understanding what you want to say yes and no to. But it's all about forgiveness or being kind to yourself when it doesn't quite go as planned.

Samatha Morgan: And documenting.

Jenn Ocken: And documenting it. Acknowledging it, documenting it.

Samatha Morgan: Acknowledging it, yeah. The documenting part that really makes a lot of sense to me too is even going back to the corporate world where you would have your annual reviews. And that's one thing I think that creatives or entrepreneurs may miss out on, that process, because they don't do it for themselves. But that annual review, you really shouldn't prepare for the day before you're about to have it. You're supposed to do that year round. You're supposed to take notes of your wins. You're supposed to take notes of your hardships. You're supposed to document, not necessarily every day, but, I mean, at least keep up with the things that worked, the things that didn't work, the projects you were involved with that were successful. So that way, when your annual review came around, you had something to really say, "I did this, this, this, this, and this." And it's the same thing that you're basically talking about with this process where you're basically doing a postmortem on each session and saying, "Well, this was good. This wasn't. I don't know about this type of client, or I don't know about this type of job."

Jenn Ocken: Yeah.

Samatha Morgan: You know?

Jenn Ocken: Making the notes. What did I not like about? What didn't I love?

Samatha Morgan: Right.

Jenn Ocken: My thing is, and one thing I made clear in this conversation with the creative that I am coaching is all while getting paid to do it, you do not sacrifice your value or compensation because you're still trying to figure things out.

Samatha Morgan: Right, yeah.

Jenn Ocken: And I just will say it over and over again, I think we've already said it in this season already, is the fact that you are passionate about something, even if it's something that doesn't really elate you in what you really want to be doing, you're not quite there at your target market or target craft talent goal, the passion that you have for pursuing this is worth way more.

Samatha Morgan: Passion doesn't mean pay me less.

Jenn Ocken: Nope.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: It actually means pay you more.

Samatha Morgan: In fact, can you just say that every episode. I think we need to hear that on repeat over and, oh, my God, that sounds like a good affirmation. Maybe we should mention that to somebody.

Jenn Ocken: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Samatha Morgan: Just saying.

Jenn Ocken: I'm really excited about these affirmations, yes.

Samatha Morgan: I am, too. That needs to be on loop in your brain over and over again because it's something that, until I heard you say it, I had never thought about before.

Jenn Ocken: It's as valuable as education and developing skillsets.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: As a person that is self-employed, freelance, as an entrepreneur, you need to develop skill sets that aren't always exactly what you need to be doing.

Samatha Morgan: Right.

Jenn Ocken: For example, invoicing and bookkeeping.

Samatha Morgan: The person I was talking to yesterday, we talked about invoicing. That's my jam. I love invoicing. I found FreshBooks. If you would like to sponsor this episode, come see me. I use FreshBooks and I-

Jenn Ocken: And you're not made for sales.

Samatha Morgan: I'm still learning.

Jenn Ocken: [inaudible 00:11:39] quickly.

Samatha Morgan: But FreshBooks, I latched onto it immediately because I love the time tracking feature where I'm able to keep up with every single thing. And it's doing the same process, basically, of accountability. I'm able to go through and make notes on different projects and things like that. But the point was to say that she was saying invoicing is her nightmare. She hates invoicing. She's really bad at it. And she will wait so long that she's actually had issues with clients before coming back and saying, "Legally, we don't have to pay you for this because you took so long to get us the invoice."

Jenn Ocken: Well, I never knew that.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: Wow.

Samatha Morgan: Well, I never knew that either, because I don't wait. I mean, look, I'm like, "Project done, invoice sent, done."

Jenn Ocken: I never knew that there was a timeline like that. Wow.

Samatha Morgan: There's a little bit of a-

Jenn Ocken: We always learning something new around here.

Samatha Morgan: It's always contract dependent. It's always going to be dependent on the terms that you set forth with the party at the beginning. So, I mean, that's probably a contract-specific type situation. But still, the point being that she almost lost out on a big chunk of money because of putting off doing the thing that she didn't love. Whereas if you don't love that thing that much, maybe you need to identify that as a pain point and say, "Perhaps I need to hire an accountant. Perhaps I need to hire somebody to that."

Jenn Ocken: Because it's obviously going to make money.

Samatha Morgan: It's obviously going to be a big problem for you.

Jenn Ocken: I'm going to tell you, my office manager does the invoicing and follows up with people, gets people to pay before the job is done or the product is delivered.

Samatha Morgan: Oh, yeah.

Jenn Ocken: It's my favorite thing to pay every time I write.

Samatha Morgan: Paying the people that are going to help you to go back to episode one where we started this whole thing, paying the people that are going to help you achieve your success.

Jenn Ocken: Absolutely.

Samatha Morgan: I mean, worth every penny.

Jenn Ocken: It's worth it, and more.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: We're getting off topic. Are we done with this topic, then?

Samatha Morgan: I think we have cleared up this topic. I think we are ready to close the books on this one.

Jenn Ocken: Yeah.

Samatha Morgan: For now, we will say thank you for coming along on this journey with us.

Jenn Ocken: Yeah. I want to quick recap just to acknowledge when you are working with somebody, acknowledge the feelings that you have, because that is the most validating resource that you have, even beyond what other people perceive of you, whether it's true or not, because you know we're always trying to figure out what other people's perceptions are.

Samatha Morgan: Yeah.

Jenn Ocken: You're not adhering to other people's perceptions or what you think their perceptions are or they're worth or value that they're blaming on to you. But this will also, in doing this, establishing a target market through experiencing your craft through different avenues or different ways or whatever that talent of service is, also leads into your confidence in what you charge.

Samatha Morgan: That's it. That's it right there.

Jenn Ocken: It really is. And that's all what we're building on.

Samatha Morgan: All right, everybody, thank you for joining us. We'll see you again next time. And Jen, what do you got to say?

Jenn Ocken: Oh, God. I love my life and I really hope y'all are out there enjoying it too.

Samatha Morgan: Awesome. See y'all soon.

Jenn Ocken: Peace. I do love my fucking life.

Samatha Morgan: You really do. It's ridiculous.